Just for shits and giggles, here is a condensed version of Edward Current's, "What If God Disappeared" video.
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Many people don't believe in God. But, imagine for a moment what would happen if God just suddenly disappeared.
What if we woke up one morning, and God had decided to make himself vanish from sight?
What kind of world would that be like?I know one thing, we Christians would be the first to know, because we can sense God's presence within us.
If God disappeared, we would instantly feel a huge void in our hearts.
We would be empty, and hopeless, and desperate inside.Like Atheists feel, today.
If God disappeared, missionaries in Africa and New Orleans would have no reason to help out victims of Malaria, AIDS, and Hurricane Katrina. (None of which, God has anything to do with.)
Spreading gospel to the sick and poor would be pointless! Particularly if the missionaries couldn't benefit in the afterlife for having done so.
If God disappeared, there would be no reason to pray.
Success and failure in life would depend only on hard work and luck, rather than God's bestowing his grace upon us. Or choosing not to, for some mysterious reason.
Missing children might or might not be returned home safely, whether we pray for them or not.
And Thanksgiving would just be another dinner, although there wouldn't be any food, with no God there to provide it.
If God disappeared, natural disasters when begin to strike at random. They'd pay no regard to the religious beliefs of people whose lives they destroy.
Imagine, earthquakes and tsunamis, striking without mercy OR warning.
What a cruel and horrible world THAT would be.
If God disappeared, the simple pleasures in life would be meaningless.
A baby's laugh, rather than bring joy to God's beautiful creations, would become a mere sound, emitted by something that will probably want food soon.
If God disappeared, society would break down immediately. Since out legal system is based on the Christian values of the Bible, as stated in the Constitution, all laws would instantly vanish from the books.
I know I'd lose all sense of right and wrong. I'd likely go on a blood thirsty rampage of killing and cannibalism. Because the fear of disobeying God is presently the only thing preventing me from doing that.
Actually, if God disappeared, we would all suffocate to death, as each breath we draw is a divine gift from our Lord.
In fact, everything that is good from breathing to a child's laugh, to the God fearing morals that prevent us from lustfully devouring each others bloodied corpses, would be gone, if God, disappeared.
Don't let God disappear. Give to your local megachurch today.
For further inquiry, just read the comments! It's really interesting to hear people's thoughts, especially to me. So go ahead, speak your mind. But please respect everyone's beliefs....or at least, don't go too far. This is only discussion, not ethnic slurs.
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I know this isn't your work, but because you've taken the time to compress it and put it onto your blog, you obviously support it, so I'm going to give you a piece of my mind.
ReplyDeleteI think that god has made a huge difference throughout the world, whether you might think he's real or not, he's still made a humongous difference.
Without god, those missionaries would probably not be helping those people with aids, malaria, and what not in Africa and New Orleans (or at least not in the name of god) It's still a great thing that those people are out there helping out, and spending their time and money towards a right cause. Therefore whether you think god exists or not, he's still helped positively.
First of, the bible isn't JUST about god.. Granted the stories in the bible wouldn't have taken place without god being here.. (I.E. God created everything, thus Genesis and God sent Jesus down, thus all the gospels, and the books created by the disciple)
Also People would still read the bible, and spread the stories, because they show good moral values. It would be just like any other book. Why would you tell people to read a book? Because you liked it, and want to share it with them. If god didn't exist, then plenty of people wouldn't read the bible, but people still would, and they would tell their friends, hey this is a great book maybe you should check it out.
Thanksgiving was a celebration of 2 completely different cultures, who had originally been fighting, uniting and sharing their customs, beliefs, the harvest, and ways of living. Now-a-days, people celebrate thanksgiving as a time to be thankful for things they have, such as family, friends, and plenty of others. It has not been declared as a christian holiday.
I have more to say, but because its 12 right now, and we unfortunately have school tomorrow, i will have to postpone the rest of this comment, but for now... here's this...
one last thing...
ReplyDeleteThere would be a HUGE void in my heart, soul, mind, and life if god were to "disappear". He (once again, whether you think he's real or not) has taken a HUGE affect on my life, and without the morals i have learned through his teachings, i probably wouldn't be where i am right now... I love my god, and i really am glad that he is in my life, because without him i would be no where, and nothing.
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ReplyDeleteHonestly, this was just something I wanted to point out. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, just like you, and I respect that. The point was, to get people thinking, not to simply bash someone's beliefs.
ReplyDeleteSo, you're saying, without God, no one would go help those people in Africa and victims of disease and who knows what? That a non-God fearing person wouldn't go help them simply out of the kindness of their own heart? That there HAS to be some external force to influence us to do these things? What has society come to, to where a man (or woman) can't do something because that's what he/she believes? And not because a superior being told them it was a good thing. Mankind shouldn't have to base their moral and ethical values that may (in your case) or may not even exist. I'm not saying there is no God. I would be lying to myself if I told you that there WERE no ulterior motive or being. But what I'm trying to get at is that a humans morals should be based on an internal ethical system. Has a millennium of evolution taught us nothing? It's what separates us from the beasts. An emotive, internal belief in basic societal values. And that man should have enough courage to say "I believe this because I want to, not because someone told me to.
You make a very good point, but I have to say, I make a very valid point as well.
Without God, can you imagine the wonderful things we take for granted, such as cell phones, computers, cars and such being invented? God bestowed many various people with a great and vast knowledge.
ReplyDeleteGod also bestowed man and woman with a conscience and with emotions.
You say that human beliefs/morals should be based on an internal ethical system? Where would this come from? Without God, we would all have animalian personalities because God has granted us with these feelings and emotions.
ohh, and most people believe what they believe because they want to. I know many non-Christians who hold no religion that believe plenty of the same things I do, simply because they know how getting their feelings hurt feels like... or the such.
ReplyDeleteGod hasn't done shit. It's the people who believe in him, who take the time to create missionaries and go on these trips and help these people who deserve the credit. He wasn't here on Earth giving money. He wasn't here on Earth giving food and shelter.
ReplyDeleteThe Bible is a great book in fact. In the same book saying Gays suck, Leviticus, here are some things deemed evil.
"Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shall thou mar the corners of thy beard." Leviticus 19: 27
Leviticus 11: 9-12
"9 These shall ye eat of all the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.
10 And all that have no fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you.
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcasses in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you."
Leviticus 19:19
"Ye shall keep my statutes...neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee."
Leviticus 20: 9
"For every one that curseth his father or mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him."
All of this is directly from my bible. Have you eaten crawfish or shrimp before, those un-finned, un-scaled little demons? My priest doesn't even have a beard. Is any of your clothing made of polyester blend? Better go dispose of it. Have you ever said, Man my mom/dad is a bitch? Well...
You do know a lot of the Bible comes from Mithraism beliefs? I don't know much about it but I've read that.
I've heard so many people so we live for nothing. And we're die, we're going to be nothing. Yes, that is depressing. Yes, I want so bad to believe there might be something after this, but let's face it. No proof, I'm sorry. And you know, when we die, we won't be nothing. Our bodies will be what feeds and nourishes the Earth. From the ground sprouts the first leaf of a crop, which becomes food, which feeds everything. A bird pecks at a seed, a berry, and flies away. The body of that bird will feed some other creature, who will feed some other creature, who will eventually die and here we are back in the Earth. Not to go all Kum-Bai-Yah on you, but when we die, we're everything. We're the soil that feeds the plants that feeds the animals that feed the soil. We're in the air. We'll be apart of everything. That isn't nothing. We aren't living for nothing. My friends, my family, my ambitions and goals keep me going. I'm living for myself and I'm ok with that.
And morals. I'd be ashamed to say my morals came from anywhere but what my parents thought me and what I've learned. Sure they're Catholic and sure I was Catholic, but I'm not immoral and if I were, it isn't because of my lack of faith. People of faith commit crimes. People without faith commit crimes. God doesn't have shit to do with morals. Moral behavior comes from human themselves and what they've learned. And an atheist can teach too.
Those men who've created those gadgets did it themselves. They did the research, they came up with it. Why are we giving God all this credit? Seriously, what about all this bad shit that's happening to people? Why is that not his fault? Everything good is a miracle of God. Everything bad is our fault. Which really is not fair.
And I cannot believe you're saying without God, these people won't have help. There are people with no faith who care too you know. And AIDS and Malaria and all that isn't his fault, right? God is so fabulous for helping creating these missionaries, well why make AIDS and Malaria in the first place?
God granted us these emotions and feelings? Really now. God breathed into some dirt and the complexities of the human being and how our mind formed was just conjured up.
Does it ever SERIOUSLY occur to you guys that perfectly good non-Christian people will burn for eternity (according to your religion) even if they are good because they don't believe in God? Even though there's no real proof or anything? Is that right? I'd like to think I'm a good person. I might swear and do the occasional bad thing, but I don't drink, smoke, or have promiscuous sex. And yet, I'm going to burn because of my lack of faith. That's just too unfair. I have a friend who's so young and innocent and who wouldn't hurt a fly, but she's Buddhist. She's going to burn? What mercy.
If you want to reply, go ahead. I'm in debate class.
*I will say that missionaries do go to help these people in "the name if God". But even if they don't have faith, what would stop them from doing it out of the kindness of their hearts? I see why you're saying this aid is thanks to God, but there would be help with out without God.
ReplyDeleteok, first off, this is a pointless rant, were going to express opinions that have been expressed through probably millions of arguments, and no one is going to persuade anyone to become christian, agnostic, atheist, Buddhist or any of that sort... So before i start with anything else, i just want to say I'm not here to offend anyone, or anything.
ReplyDelete(and Monika, on a side note, just because your in debate doesn't mean you'll win this, haha it might make you more prepared, but it doesn't guarantee you anything, look at steven :P)
Ok, to start off..
I know almost nothing of Leviticus, or many books in the bible to tell you the truth because I've only started caring here in the last 5 months or so, because i have always been raised catholic and i used to hate church because the catholic service was so boring! So therefore i have no point to make on that subject...
I see death in religions as this:
Atheist's: You die, and your body enters the "Circle of Life" (Haha gotta love Mrs. Rickard's lion king :D)
Christian's: You die, you go to heaven/hell depending on your actions, and your body still enters the "Circle of Life"
I hate to put it this way, because it doesn't sound right to me... As stated above, Atheist's go into nothing, while from a Christian's view you have a 50/50 chance of going somewhere awesome, or somewhere not-so-awesome... So which has a better chance of being in a better place?
Everyone has morals, whether they be high placed, or low placed, but it is proven, that with a religion such as Christianity, people tend to have high moral values. In the past,when teachers have been allowed to have a bible in a classroom, or the ten commandments on the wall, or the ability to pray in class aloud, rates of drugs, sex, alcoholics, and violence in school was lower, but when they took those things out of the schools, the rates of the past mentioned items rose.
There might be some "fishy" things in the christian religion that you might call "questionable" or "unbelievable" and that is way religion is a faith based thing. You have to have faith, not everything is set in stone, that's what makes religion so hard. I am DEFINITELY one of those types of people that likes step by step directions, and that has been hard for me to be christian, but that's where faith steps in.
Yes, there would still be those people with good hearts that create causes, but i guarantee you, without religion that amount would go down, even if you don't like how this god has "feared" people into doing good things. Sure, God is almighty and powerful, and he does disastrous stuff, and we don't per say, "blame" it on him, but we do know that he is the reason that everything happens, good or bad.
Sorry i can't write a book on the subject, but i can throw a page or two out there...
People have written volumes over the ages about proving faith, existence of God, good vs. evil, and what happens after you die. So it would be difficult to touch each subject in the depth it requires. So here is what I believe to be true. I don't push that on anyone else or judge them for not agreeing with me. I try to show love to them because God loves them just like He loves me. A person's opinion on those topics starts with the answer to one question: "is there a God?"
ReplyDeleteSo, do you believe in God? Not just a higher power or supreme being, but the God of the Bible. I believe in the one true God of the Bible. He created the world and all that is in it. He created me and you. The Bible teaches that God is love and we learn how to love because God loved us before we were ever even born. So yes we learn morals and how to love from our parents but we understand that because of God's love for us. People love others and take care of others because God has put that in us when He created us. If people are being missionaries and helping others because they want to get an "A+" from God, then they are missing out on what it means to help others in the name of Jesus Christ.
I believe God doesn't sit up in the universe with a check list waiting for us to mess up. He has given us standards to live by because He wants us to live a life that honors Him. God doesn't want to see us hurting because poor choices and bad morals eventually lead to hurting people and messed up families.
I hate it sometimes that "religion" and "church" get in the way of people experiencing God in their life. God is awesome. He loves us and He wants us to be real with Him, talk with Him, and live for Him. He knows we are going to mess up sometimes.
I believe that when we die we will all see God. The Bible says that if we have asked for forgiveness of our sins and asked Jesus to come into our life than we will spend eternity in Heaven. If we don't have that relationship we will be forever separated from God. Is this fair? Is that right? I don't know, but it's that way because of sin. We all have sin because of Adam and Eve. We can't get rid of it or have it removed. Jesus is the only one who can take our sin away.
Well, that was more than I had planned on responding but it just kept coming. I love discussing this stuff.
And sometimes the Bible teaches about certain practices (like the Leviticus stuff) that isn't relative to us today. But just because we don't practice that stuff today doesn't make the Bible irrelevant. God wanted them to do that stuff because that would set them apart from other people in the ancient world. Other people groups who practiced idol worship and human sacrifice to their gods dressed certain ways and acted certain ways. God commanded His people to set themselves apart from those people in dress and lifestyle. So even though we shave beards and stuff, we can still apply that to our life that we should set ourselves apart from those who do evil and live wicked lives.
christina, i like this! it's kinda funny but kinda serious at the same time! you're totally one of my favorite bloggers! ;)
ReplyDelete~LP
ps: no need to get all freaky defensive, everyone... -.-
Thanks, to people who did reply. I really appreciated your well thought out responses and I'm thankful you don't resort to name calling and such. :D
ReplyDeleteAnd in response to the question above...do *I* believe in God? Maybe, maybe not. I'm un-religious. But I DO think, that yes, there may be something greater than us. Am I willing to acknowledge it? Perhaps when I see for myself that there IS something.
But don't fret. I hold the same moral and ethnic values as the rest of you. I'd even like to say, I'm much more reserved and well-behaved, if you will, then most of the girls that claim to be Christian. I just feel like I don't need to label my set of values, or worship a superior being, to qualify me a decent human.
And Christian! (the person. lol.) Don't give me that "people who allow Christianity into their lives have higher moral standards" crap! (now, I saw that a jesting manner, but I mean it.) I can bet you right now, my moral standards are set high above most of those people in our school. (I never said modesty was an asset I possessed)And they supposedly believe in God! The problem, I see is that when those people do bad things, they seek "forgiveness" and they expect it. They think they have redos and second chances to redeem themselves, and to RVSP that spot in Heaven. But I can tell you right now, my conscience is 3 times louder than theirs. Not because I want that spot in Heaven, but because I believe without a doubt in myself. And don't expect me to believe those people are better than me. You guys go about flaunting around the fact that you think you're so slick because you can cheat on papers, tests, and exams. What does God say about cheaters, and liars? You guys have double standards for almost everything. With God, people can justify killing, lying, cheating, stealing, and who knows what? All for what? In the name of God? I'm not saying you guys do all those things. I don't want justification for anything, nor do I need it. I have no wish to.
Hey, I want to hop on the bandwagon and join the Circle of Life! Where do I go after I die? Why do I care? I'm gonna be dead.
But hey, to each his own.
Gah, I'm not in debate. But this is no competition, as I get no prize. Just a bunch of pissed off people. That sounds good to me.
BTW, anyone have any idea who that anon was up there? Their response was nice and not pushy. I like seeing other people's point of views, as it helps me better understand people in general.
ReplyDeleteAnybody have a clue, please feel free to tell me. Lol. I'm dying to know. Anonymity always kills me.
Sorry if you took it that way, but either i typed my thoughts out wrong previously, or you took it from the wrong perspective, but i meant that being a christian, and through god's teaching, and having a greater understanding of his teachings help you have high standards. I wasn't shunning people out who are not christian, because i know that plenty of non-christian people have really high standards/morals.
ReplyDeleteAnd i still haven't figured out what that F (if it was an F word... hmm) word in the walk to remember book is, yah know just because were on religion here i was thinking about it... haha
Fornicators? LOL. We have a lot of those in our school...
ReplyDeleteAnd don't worry (not that you were, I think.), I don't think you're shunning people.
But on a side note...whatever you do, whatever you want to call it...it's still classified as "lying". But hey! I'm not judging you. You can do whatever. Lol.
Do not compare me to Steven Johnson. Lol. Christian, please don't tell me you view me that lowly xD
ReplyDeleteEr, about the prayer in school thing. There's a Bible story where God says that the hypocrite prays in the open for those to see so that he may be praised, but the good Christian prays in the quiet of his room, so that God may reward him. God himself doesn't want your prayer in the public and prayer is a sacred thing for you guys. If you hadn't noticed, teachers still have the "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" picture in their classrooms. We still have to say that in the pledges, and I can't get out of it without a note in Texas. You guys have fought so hard for your moment of silence and some of you don't even respect it. (You know who I mean haha…)
Please don’t start on morals. I understand what you’re saying but please. There's a lot of discrimination. Only 45% of the world would vote for an Atheist as president, according to a Gall-up poll. We were the lowest, with some type of Christianity as the highest. Meaning over half of America would not want an Atheist. Homosexuals were second to lowest. And what about people's views on Atheism? 13% view them positively, 45% not so much. this is a 2008 poll. Atheist conventions have to have extra security because of threats. And trust me, they're not threats from other heathens. Your beloved former-President George H.W. Bush says, quote, "No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God." It wasn't until 1961 were atheist allowed to serve on juries, testify in court, or hold office in every state. And SEX my dear? Haven't you heard of the priest molesting children and telling them it was "the will of God"? One Christian blamed 9/11 on homosexuals and non-Christians. Haven't you heard of Westboro Baptist Church? Their morals are messed up. I'm angry that so many people waste their time hating homosexuals just because its in the bible that you should and it's in the same book of those ridiculous things I previously posted. You're going to ignore "you can't eat crawfish" but you're going to pay attention to "gays are abominations"? Seriously, there is nothing wrong with that. If you take religion out of the whole equation, maybe they can finally have some peace and not have cruel people dogging them. There are parts of the Bible that support slavery. That's not moral. Remember the Salem Witch Trials? Women and some men killed because they were thought to be witches against God? What about the Inquisition? There's a Christian group who want to live life just like how the Bible tells you. That sounds great, right? No. They mean it all. Stoning people to death. if someone views bad images, your eye is plucked out. Etc. That's cruel. I know Christians too have been persecuted for their beliefs before, and they should have learned a thing or two about tolerance, but some haven‘t. And calling Obama the "antichrist" isn't very nice, I must say. The most religious people are in the South. The most racist people? the south.
Don't even tell me anything about my morality. My morality is good. I'm a moral person. I'm a good person. I don't need anyone telling me otherwise. I'm a humanist.
You keep talking about faith, but have you actually thought about it? Say someone says your girlfriend cheated on you. You immediately demand evidence. Because why would you believe them without evidence? If the po-po arrested everyone based on "because he said so", we'd all be in jail. Evidence in important in life. Scientific evidence, all types of evidence. Where is the evidence for God? If the bible contradicts itself, if there are bad things in it, and you're still going to stubbornly believe in it because of faith, that's not nobility, that's bordering on just closed-mindedness. I've been a Catholic. Hard-core catholic. So I’ve been on both sides of the field. Not to sound better or anything, but just saying. I didn't ignore the "well this doesn't make sense" things people asked me and I looked into it. Maybe I’m a bad person for letting it affect my faith or whatever, but I don't steal, have sex, smoke, use alcohol, etc. I might cheat now in then in Peugh's ( hahah) but lack of faith isn't a bad thing.
And this whole afterlife thing. I just said we won't go into nothing. Also… Perfectly good people will ROT AND BURN IN HELL BECAUSE OF SIMPLY LACKING FAITH. It's immoral and it's malicious to be ok with that. Stop looking at the pretty picture of Heaven and look at hell. A merciful God wouldn't even have a hell. There is good in everybody. Even those murderers, those molesters don't
And this whole afterlife thing. I just said we won't go into nothing. Also… Perfectly good people will ROT AND BURN IN HELL BECAUSE OF SIMPLY LACKING FAITH. It's immoral and it's malicious to be ok with that. Stop looking at the pretty picture of Heaven and look at hell. A merciful God wouldn't even have a hell. There is good in everybody. Even those murderers, those molesters don't deserve eternal pain. ETERNAL pain. It's hard to grasp that concept but it's immoral. And I don't understand how two people's sins can be brought down upon us. That's unfair. I didn’t eat from the tree of knowledge.
Fear is a bad thing to rule by. Sorry.
Yes, I completely agree with what Monika said. You guys can CHOOSE to ignore the stuff you deem inferior (like not eating crayfish, having beards, and stoning your kids), but you CAN'T ignore the passage that says homosexuality is an abomination? You're CHOOSING to accept that? You're not thinking that because God says it. You're thinking that either because you're close-minded, or simply because adults told you. If you're giving me the "it says in the bible" crap, you're not regarding all of the texts of the bible. You're picking and choosing the stuff YOU want and disposing of the stuff you just don't want to follow.
ReplyDeleteChristianity is only conjecture. Interpretation is the only thing you've got.
Another thing, being the moderator and host of this blog, I have one thing to say.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how I bring up one touchy subject and people decide to defend it and voice their opinions.
Otherwise, I don't hear a peep except from maybe one person. Shows how much my real life friends really care. Thanks guys.
For REALLY caring.
You know the world is a messed up place. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean they have it all figured out. Many times the Christians that are in the news are the crazy ones. Let me strain to make a comparison, not a great one, but comparison none-the-less. Let's take an extreme conservationist. They protest and even harm people for hurting the earth. That doesn't make all conservationist bad or mixed up. In every walk of life there are people who go too far and in an attempt to support their cause they drive people away. Just a thought.
ReplyDelete"If the bible contradicts itself, if there are bad things in it, and you're still going to stubbornly believe in it because of faith, that's not nobility, that's bordering on just closed-mindedness." - Monika's post
What contradictions are you concerned about? I believe the Bible is without error.
...sorry for the previous anonymity.
ReplyDeleteChristina:
ReplyDeleteI care, i read most of your blogs, when i know about them, via myspace, i just don't mostly have anything to say about them. This one is an exception because it is linked to me, tons!
But hey, if want me mindlessly commenting on all your blogs, i can do that for you!
Contradictions:
ReplyDelete[John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you.
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Exodus 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name
Note there are more peace quotes but I'm lazy lol. Not trying to say there are more war quotes.]
[Isaiah 14:21 Prepare slaugter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers;that they do not rise, nor possess land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be out to death for his own sin.
Also, apparently we're still paying for Adam and Eve's sins.]
[James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen thje end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy.
Jeremiah 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, event he fathers and the sons togetherm saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.]
Mistake:
[In the beginning, it was just Adam and Eve, who bore Cain and Abel. Then after Cain killed Abel and was disowned, he "dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And cain knew his wife; and she conceived and bare Enoch." Where'd this lady come from?]
[Deuteronomy 14:6-7
"And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean to you."
Rabbits don't chew on cud. The coney is also a rabbit or a fish. Camels "divide the hoof".]
there are more but oh well. It is a bit pointless to argue this because no one's going to win.